Play Beats Fear

Come and listen to our Host, Candace Gish, as she chats with inspiring guest Dr. Michelle Hastie Thompson for our "Victory Over Fear" Podcast Mini-Series.

This powerful series explores what it truly means to move forward despite uncertainty, self-doubt, and life's challenges. Through authentic conversations, personal stories, and practical wisdom, we uncover how courage is built one step at a time. Fear may be loud, but it doesn't have to have the final say.

Together, we'll discover how healing, faith, resilience, and action can help us overcome the barriers that keep us stuck. Whether you're facing a major life transition, stepping into a new opportunity, or simply learning to trust yourself again, these conversations will encourage you to embrace bravery and move confidently toward your purpose.

Join us as we celebrate the strength found in vulnerability, the growth that comes from taking risks, and the victories that happen when we choose courage over fear.

Author of The Weight Loss Shift, The Chakra Secret, Have Your Cake and Be Happy, Too, and One Throw at a Time

Dr. Michelle Hastie Thompson is a researcher, speaker, and creator of the HUMAN™ framework, a model that helps people understand why connection is essential for well-being, confidence, and sustainable performance. Known to many as “Cornhole Meesh,” she works at the intersection of psychology, play, and human connection, helping individuals and organizations reconnect to what makes them feel grounded, alive, and supported.

She commentates professional cornhole, creates courses, leads coaching experiences, and designs team-based connection events that use play and shared experience to build trust, presence, and belonging. Her work focuses on practical, human ways to restore focus, emotional regulation, and resilience in a world that often pulls people away from themselves and each other.

Michelle lives in California with her husband, Nick, and their son, Rome, where most of her best ideas still begin in the backyard, one throw at a time.

 https://www.cornholemeesh.com/ 

https://www.instagram.com/cornholemeesh/

https://www.facebook.com/michellehastiethompson

We reconnect with Dr. Michelle Thompson and follow her surprising path from psychology and wellness work into the world of competitive cornhole and community building. We explore how play lowers fear, rebuilds belonging after loss, and helps us loosen the grip of control when life feels uncertain.

• Dr. Michelle Thompson’s work in cornhole performance psychology
• Why cornhole creates belonging through low barriers and easy conversation
• What motivation looks like when an activity is genuinely fun
• How COVID pushed cornhole into the spotlight on ESPN
• The research journey from PhD dissertation to “One Throw at a Time”
• Losing a home in a 2018 fire and rebuilding community through tournaments
• Simple ways to start playing in your backyard with neighbors
• How to find local tournaments through Facebook groups and the ACL
• A reminder to stop over-managing life and trust small moment-to-moment choices

For more Divas That Care Network Episodes visit www.divasthatcare.com

Transcript

Welcome To Divas That Care

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It's Divas the Care Radio. Stories, strategies, and ideas to inspire positive change. Welcome to Divas That Care, a network of women committed to making our world a better place for everyone. This is a global movement for women by women engaged in a collaborative effort to create a better world for future generations. To find out more about the movement, visit divas that care.com after the show. Right now, though, stay tuned for another jolt of inspiration.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Hello,

Introducing Victory Over Fear

SPEAKER_02 0:32

everyone, and welcome back to the Divas That Care. My name is Candice Gish. If this is your very first tuning into the Divas That Care, a huge welcome. We are in our 16th year and we're listening to over 34 countries around the world. And it's because of all of our listeners, our tribe, everybody that's tuned in has been really supportive of us. That's why we've been able to continue with this program. Um I'm very excited. I'm going to be reintroducing uh past Diva to our program. Her name is Dr. Michelle Thompson, and we're very excited to have her. She's going to be in our mini-series and what we're going to be talking about, Victory Over Fear. This powerful series explores what it truly means to move forward despite uncertainty, self-doubt, and life's challenges. Through authentic conversations, personal stories, and practical wisdom, we uncover how courage is built one step at a time. Fear may be loud, but it doesn't have to have a the final say. So welcome back, Dr. Michelle. So good to be back.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Well, I'm very excited to have you, honestly. Um and I'm very excited to actually be talking about a book that you've just released. But before we do that, would you reintroduce yourself to our listeners today?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Absolutely.

Meet The Psychologist In Cornhole

SPEAKER_01 1:41

So I have kind of a unique uh niche because I work in the world of cornhole, you know, beanbag toss. And so um that's actually where I got introduced to uh working with people on performance. So in the past, uh when I came on last, I was working on body connection, connection to food, connection to weight, and exercise. And I've translate uh transformed into working into performance and working with athletes in cornhole of all places. But what's so funny about that is that it introduced me to a whole new level of social connectedness, community, and belonging and a lot of things that I felt were lacking when I was working with women on their weight. And uh, so it's just been a funny little full full circle thing. But I do uh cornhole commentating. So I'm a broadcaster on ESPN uh for the American Cornhole League, and then I work with the um athletes and the players on performance.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

My God, that is so funny and I really ironic. I was visiting some friends over the weekend and I hadn't played that game in years, and we actually played it in their house of all the places to play it, and I'm like, wow, and then to have this conversation with you, I just think it was just so cute. And I just want to thank you because this is gonna be great because it's not something that we ever think about is meaning with professional cornhole, because I thought, oh, it's just a fun thing that you're throwing these beanbags and and it was a lot of fun, and we had we were kind of connecting in a way that we haven't connected before through the play.

Motivation And Belonging Through Play

SPEAKER_02 3:09

So let's talk a little bit about that and why you decided to get into this.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Yeah, it didn't, it happened as things often do. Um, so my husband became really addicted to the sport and he was playing all the time, and then I realized, man, if I don't start playing, I'm never gonna see this man. So I started playing. We played in the backyard, but I was like, I'm gonna actually have a go at this and compete at the local tournaments because that's what he always wanted to do. And um, so I started doing that and I fell in love with the game as a psychologist. I started watching some uh variables unfold before my eyes, things that I had not seen when I was working with women in weight, you know, things like motivation. People had no problem getting to cornhole tournaments. When I was working with women in wealth, wellness and health, it was like they had an excuse for everything, and it's not their fault. There's so much nuance around health and wellness. But in cornhole, people would drive through rainstorms, they would be there from on a Wednesday night till midnight, even if they had to work at 6 a.m. Like there was no barriers. They were good, they were doing it no matter what. It was that important to them and that much fun. So yeah, it was really interesting. I'm like, what is it about this?

SPEAKER_02 4:16

This is amazing because I would never have thought that in a million years, that it was this big of a thing. You know, I've I've played it a few times over the years, but I never knew that there were tournaments. I didn't know that a lot of people were involved in this. I just thought, oh, well, somebody's got this game and we're just playing it.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, and I think that's what's interesting to see it from the psychology lens, because now, of course, I'm I'm an investigator, right? So I'm watching why is this happening? Why is this becoming something that people are wanting to do on a regular basis? And why is it so uh good at creating community and connection? And there's a

Why Cornhole Connects Every Age

SPEAKER_01 4:50

lot of reasons. I mean, if you compare it to other sports, um, you think about the barrier to entry. If you want to be a golfer, it's expensive, right? You have to get clubs, you have to go to the, you have to go to the actual golf places. Like you can't just do it in your backyard. Cornhole, you could theoretically build boards, buy some cheap bags, and you're off and running. You're playing the game. So it attracts everybody and anybody because there's just really low barrier to entry. And then on top of that, it's a one-pound bag. And if your regulation, it's 27 feet that you're that you're throwing. And so it's not it's not something that gets in the way of anybody doing it. You don't have to be physically fit. You could be um, my my 11-year-old plays with us and throws the distance just like we do. It makes no difference. And when we have our courthole tournaments, there's people there from um as young as eight and as as up to eighties. Um, so there's and then you look at you're standing side by side, so it's easy to have conversation because you have that parallel, which is non-intimidating. And then lastly, it's the pace of play. So you throw a bag um and then you wait, and then after your four bags, you wait while the your opponent throws back, and now you have time to talk to your the person next to you, and then you're not gonna play back-to-back games. So, in between games, you're also waiting, and that creates a lot of time for social connection.

The COVID Boom And ESPN Spotlight

SPEAKER_02 6:10

When did this start becoming really popular?

SPEAKER_01 6:12

During COVID. Um, so that's when the world shut down, and uh the American Cornhole League was pretty much the only sport on ESPN because it was naturally socially distant. Distance really. Yeah, that was it, right? They couldn't have any other sports, everything was shut down, but Cornhole, they could play. Um, everyone's far enough apart. So you just have the four players on the court, they had a broadcaster far enough away. Oh, they had someone that would grab the bags, and that's all they needed.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Never would I have thought that. This is so this is so cool. And so from there, you've really invested and you really got into this, and obviously your family's involved with this, and then you came up with a

Turning Research Into A Book

SPEAKER_02 6:53

book. And I want to talk about that because I know that you're an author of many books now. Why did you decide to write this book?

SPEAKER_01 7:00

So it started with my dissertation when I was finishing up my um PhD in psychology, and I wanted to investigate this uh not just on my own personal investment, but um, you know, for formal, like a formal research. And so I had the topic of, you know, how do or I can't remember the exact title now, it's been a while, but basically, what's what is it with social connectedness and competitive cornhole is essentially what I was investigating. And I interviewed cornhole players, and their results were really fascinating. And when I was in my meetings with my committee to get approved for my dissertation and be done with the PhD, they said, please tell me you're going to write a book about this, like something people don't want to read my dissertation, right? It's uh it's dry, but like, please tell me you're gonna translate this into something that everybody will uh read and learn about how how important connection in play is, and then how well Cornhole can provide that.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

I I agree with that, and I can see why people wouldn't read the other one, but would really want to get into this because it is something different. And now that we're chatting, I kind of I'm understanding a little bit more. And you were saying that with the background in wellness, you know, and trying to support people, I can see how people with our podcast series here, you know, we're going through a lot of uncertainty and we're going through a lot of challenges in our lives, but maybe doing something like this with our family, having it in our backyard, you know, could bring a smile to our face again. And it can help us with, you know, just physical challenges too.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Exactly. It has a lot of facets to it because well, we we there is I my entire uh literature review is on the dangers of disconnection and loneliness and isolation. So there's a ton of research that shows um how important it is to connect, not just in your home, not just with your family, but in the community, stepping outside of your normal bubble. And cornhole brings every walk of life into the room. So that's a really cool aspect of it as well. But one of the things I saw when I was working in wellness was that the women were so hyper-focused on their weight. They were obsessed with counting their calories, they were making sure they got enough exercise. And it was like all their focus and attention was on improving the body. And even now we see so much with um the obsession with trackers and monitoring everything we do. And we think if we can just control everything to death, then we're guaranteed an outcome. And I understand that it we get the illusion that, oh, we're gonna not gonna have any uncertainty if we follow all the rules and do everything right. But then we bring in something as silly as cornhole and we say, let's just drop all that. Let's just go and have fun, let's just throw a bag towards the a board and be with people and not worry. Nobody cares what you weigh there, nobody cares what you're wearing. Uh, none of that matters. And if we're talking about optimizing our life, yeah, what a what a good way to optimize by just having fun, connecting, and having some play.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Oh, I love this. How can you encourage, you know, our listeners, because we have listeners all around the world here. How can

Simple Ways To Start Playing

SPEAKER_02 10:04

we encourage them to, you know, maybe start in their backyard and maybe encourage people to come up with tournaments and ways to engage with their neighbors and friends?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Yeah, if you're just in your local neighborhood, this is one of the cool things that I love about it because we moved to a new town and you're starting to meet people and we're adults, so it could be a little awkward making friends and you know, like it feels a little weird sometimes to just invite someone over for dinner that you don't really know because what if the conversation doesn't flow or you don't know what they like to eat, etc. So when we would move here, we would just meet people out and about and be like, hey, you want to come come to the house and throw some bags? And it was a very easy way to have someone introduced to our space and introduce to us. And if it didn't work out, it's whatever. You threw bags together. It wasn't like we had a dinner date. Uh, but it was a nice way to kind of step into that world with someone, and then you can go, okay, this was someone I want to keep hanging out with, and then maybe it's not, no big deal. So we did that, and then if you have people in your neighborhood that you could hang out with, you could invite them over to play cornhole. But my favorite thing is to go to the local tournaments because um there's they're everywhere, all around the world, and you could go and you could find a place to play and meet new people, and it's just the most encouraging, supportive uh group of people just trying to have some fun.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

This is so great. How could a person go and find one of those? Is it they just Google that and they could find events in their area?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah, so you could go if you're using social media, for example, you could go into the Facebook groups and and you know, look for like Cornhole in your city. Um, you could go to the American Cornhole Leagues website, theacl.com, and find something there. They also have an app. Um, and so there's lots of ways that you can, there's lots of apps and things that you can download and find tournaments in your area. Um, and then you know, I have a Facebook group I call from couch to cornhole, and I I create an Oh I love it. Yeah, I created it because I want people to be able to hop in there and be like, hey, I live in such and such. Um, is anybody, you know, is there any cornhole stuff near me so I can start playing? And then you can maybe know somebody before you even show up.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Oh, okay, that's great. So, Dr. Michelle, how can a person uh find your book? And, you know, what is how can they get that? And maybe tell us a little bit about what's in the book.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Yeah,

Fire Loss And Community Healing

SPEAKER_01 12:22

so one throw at a time. It's um on Amazon or anywhere you can buy books online. And um it so basically it started out, like I said, of me just kind of wanting to put my dissertation in a more readable format. But when I started writing it, I actually threaded my story throughout throughout it, because it really all started when I lost my home in a fire in 2018. And when that happened, we were forced to move to a new community and we didn't know anybody, and it it was a really small town that we lived in, and so 90% of the town burnt. So we lost the whole community in one fell swoop. And so it was really hard to build back up after that and be in a not only a new town, but be grieving the loss of your normal routine life without it being your choice, right? Waking up one day and it's all gone, and even going back to that community, it's it's all gone. So what we did was we started playing Cornhole, and it was actually through Cornhole that we all healed, my my family and I, because we started playing in these local tournaments, we started meeting people, and now we have this massive community in this new town in a fairly short period of time because we started tournaments in 2021 and we moved here in 2018. And um, so it it weaves in my stories, uh, my stories of struggling as an adolescent with things like confidence and um really living a life where I wanted to hide and not being connected and isolating, and then how all these themes uh weave in through all that.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

I find you quite fascinating, um, very inspirational. I just love this entire idea. I think it really stems from just honestly playing it on the weekend and just having so much fun and not wanting it to stop. But everybody else is like, well, you know, we've already they've obviously done it before and they do it all the time. And I'm like, well, we got to continue doing this. So seeing that and how you're being able to connect with people, but now sharing that and really encouraging others to start doing this also. I I d love it because right now, with being summer too, what a great time to get outside, get playing. Uh, I know that yes or on the weekend I was playing inside, which was a little bit odd to me because we were throwing it and I was so scared of breaking everything in their house because I obviously am not used to this and I'm throwing it all over the place. But, you know, being outside and being more comfortable and just smiling and hanging out with people, I what a great thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Yeah, and it's great for connecting with families, getting off the screens. You know, my son he's grown up around it. He's 11 now, but we've been in the industry for, you know, what, five years that I've been working for the ACL, traveling around the US doing uh events for them. And we run a weekly tournament here in town. And so our son Rome has spent weekends at courthole tournaments and helped us set up the boards and um learned how to throw and watch some of his favorite pros on TV and then got to meet them at events. And now he's, you know, in the summer we let him come on Wednesdays to our events since it's it's a late night, so we don't do that during the school week. But he comes now every Wednesday and he plays and he's getting better, and people are complimenting his throw and how great his bag is looking. And and now he's outside when his friends come over and they're playing, and it's just something that anybody can do. And that's to me the best part about it is you know, I'm not gonna go to a pickup basketball game. Like, I'm just not like that's not gonna happen. Oh, but um, yeah, it's it's a that requires some skill, right? And so I thought I would, you know, absolutely not be intimidated by something like cornhole.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

No, and I love it. So, can I ask you how did the name come about? Because a lot of people ask about that, and I I find that's kind of a neat thing, too.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Yeah, the the name. So back before we got really serious about it, our bags uh we purchased just from the local store here in town, and they absolutely did have corn in them. Um, the worst part about that is that the if you leave them outside, then the animals eat them. So we were constantly having to replace our bags because the corn was being eaten inside of the bags. Um, but no, once you get to a more serious competitive level, or even just if you want higher quality equipment, it's gonna be plastic resin inside the bag. But originally it was corn. So corn in the bag towards a hole.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Fantastic. Oh, Michelle, this has been so much fun. One of

Letting Go Of Control

SPEAKER_02 16:51

the things I always ask our amazing guests, you know, is there any last minute tips or tools that you can share with our listeners today? You know, we've been talking about barriers too. You know, this the show is all about you know, healing, faith, resilience. And I think with what you're doing, it's really that's what's what you can do with it.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yeah, I think the theme, if I were to kind of narrow it down, that I've really learned in my life as I've gotten older is that, you know, for a large part of my I mean, I I can't even just say adolescence, a large part of my life going into adulthood, I've really had to control and had to manage and how to had to um be really rigid about everything because it created a a false sense of safety and security that I needed. Um and so it it was a it was something that served me for a long time and and it it made me look on the outside very ambitious, very driven, very successful. Um, but on the inside, it was uh like a completely I was obsessed with growth and success and optimization. And um, I was a hustler and it all was received really well on the outside. And then as I've gotten older, I've realized that that is just not an optimal way of living, in my opinion. And we're not supposed to control and optimize every part of our life. It's okay to have awareness. I love to take care of myself, I love to exercise and eat healthy and things like that, but I don't do it to get an outcome or a goal. I do it because that's what feels good moment to moment to live a really incredible life. But in terms of the outcome of having everything we want in life, it has to come from a place of not control, not management, um, and getting into that discomfort of uncertainty and saying, like, I don't know if this is gonna work. And I don't, I have to just trust that if I make decisions moment to moment that feel best to me, that that will create outcomes and results that I want. But realistically, I don't know if that's true either. Um, but I also don't know it's true just because I control it all. That's that's a that's a falsity. Um, so I've really just kind of in life loosen the reins, and I I recommend just not managing so much and just living more, just go out and experience things and have fun and don't worry so much about optimization and managing every part of your life and trying to create outcomes in every part of your life. You're just you're just living moment to moment in the way that feels best and you trust that that gets you to where you want to go.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Oh, thank you so much. I love that, Dr. Michelle. Uh, can I ask you?

How To Learn More And Connect

SPEAKER_02 19:26

I know that you're uh you're an author, but do you do any coaching or anything else on the side?

SPEAKER_01 19:32

I do. Um, I'm much more I think a teacher than a coach. Um I I do have clients that I coach um through like a Voxer type of setting. Um I'm not really like a clinical one-on-one patient type of um coach, uh, but I really love teaching. I love creating courses that give people tools and skills and techniques, and that's actually the direction I'm going in. I'm you know, I'm looking to um starting at a school with like social emotional learning and teaching the skills that the kids and the teachers need. So I'm much more of a teacher than um a coach these days, but I definitely do that on the side as well.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Oh, wonderful. So can any of our listeners get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah, absolutely. So uh my name is Cornhole Meesh. That's what I go by on uh socials. Um so uh my website is cornholemeesh.com. That's M-E-E-S-H. Um so you can hop on there, and there's lots of you can get a free passage from the book to see if you like it. You can kind of step into the world and I create a lot of content. I have fun YouTube videos. Um, that's all on there. And then if you want to connect further than that, you know, all the the socials and everything are there.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Oh, wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being my amazing guest today. I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Yeah, no problem. It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

You're welcome. And to

Final Thanks And Kindness Reminder

SPEAKER_02 20:52

all of our amazing listeners out there, thank you so much for tuning in to Victory Over Fear. I will be posting all of Dr. Michelle's information and social media handles so that you can go and check her out. I think it'd be wonderful to share this with all of your friends and family because you don't know who is going to be wanting this. And to be honest, you know, just playing this amazing game over the weekend, I can't wait to read this book because I think it's gonna really resonate within my life and within my friendships and in within my community. I can already think of all the ways that it would support the people in my area. So thank you again to Dr. Michelle, and thank you to all of our listeners. And make sure that you remember to do something kind. Until next time, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Thanks for listening. This show was brought to you by Divas That Care. Connect with us on Facebook, on Instagram, and of course on divas that care.com, where you can subscribe to our newsletter so you don't miss a thing.