Confidence Through Action

Come and listen to our Host, Tina Spoletini, as she chats with today's guest, Cathy Holt, for our “Unapologetically Unique” Podcast Series.

This mini-series serves to distill success into its truest form—standing firmly in your own identity. We are moving beyond the comparison game to help you lead with unapologetic confidence. By anchoring your habits in self-belief rather than outside expectations, you’ll shift from chasing temporary inspiration to becoming a changemaker with lasting, year-long momentum. 

Cathy Holt is an international speaker, bestselling author, TV host, and women’s leadership strategist who helps high-achieving women expand their influence and shape decisions, direction, and growth inside organizations and their businesses. Over the past four decades, Cathy has guided women across corporate, entrepreneurial, and global arenas, including collaborations with the United Nations. She brings a rare blend of strategic insight and lived leadership experience to her work.  

Her book, Unstoppable Women: Owning Our Voices and Leading Change is a call to action for women who want to stay true to their strengths and values as they expand their influence.

www.cathyholt.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-holt-hts/

https://www.facebook.com/catherine.holt.56

Instagram: cathyhts

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1965652247

Link to gift - https://catherine-holt.com/4strategies

We explore the real-world skills that turn lived experience into leadership, from meetings and body language to boundaries and big leaps.
• confidence as a skill built through doing
• how early messaging and comparison culture shape self-doubt
• being talked over at work and how to respond strategically
• nonverbal communication and presence that changes outcomes
• leveraging strengths and staying on message to influence decisions
• building supportive relationships and learning from every season
• compassionate leadership and women amplifying women in rooms
• practical shifts that change how we lead and how we are perceived
• burnout patterns, saying no, and choosing what fits your path
• stepping into opportunities before you feel ready

For more Divas That Care Network Episodes visit www.divasthatcare.com

Transcript

Welcome And Unapologetically Unique

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It's Divas That Care Radio. Stories, strategies, and ideas to inspire positive change. Welcome to Divas That Care, a network of women committed to making our world a better place for everyone. This is a global movement for women by women engaged in a collaborative effort to create a better world for future generations. To find out more about the movement, visit divas that care.com after the show. Right now, though, stay tuned for another jolt of inspiration.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Welcome to Confidence in Bloom, where we celebrate women stepping into their power unapologetically and authentically. This month, our theme is unapologetically unique. A deep dive into owning your story, embracing your individuality, and breaking free from comparison culture. Today I'm thrilled to welcome Kathy Hold, international speaker, best-selling author, TV host, and women's leadership strategist, whose work has helped high-achieving women expand their influence and shape decisions across organizations, businesses, and even global platforms like the United Nations. Kathy's insights will inspire you to show up fully as yourself, amplify your voice, and lead change without compromise. Now let's dive in. Oh Kathy, I'm so happy to have you here. Welcome to Welcome to Confidence on in Bloom.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

I'm so thrilled that you asked me to join you. I I love your podcast, and I just I'm just so excited to be part of it.

Confidence Is Built By Doing

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Excellent. Yeah, I'm so excited to have you here. So I'm we're gonna get right started. Um now you've spent 40 years guiding women in corporate, entrepreneurial, and uh global arenas. How have you seen women's confidence evolve and what patterns of self-doubt still hold many of these women back?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

That is such a great question because I think confidence um happens a little differently at different points in our journey. Um, I think in the beginning, when we're trying something new or something we haven't done before, which a lot of women do throughout their career, I've I've done it, you know, seven or eight times. I've changed careers, you could say. And I think at that point, confidence often is I've got to be 100% ready to do it. And what I say to women is, no, you don't, you know, because it's like um if we remember back, if you ever learned to ride a bicycle, you know, as kids, we didn't sit around and go, hmm, do I feel like I'm ready? I think I'm gonna do it. Well, maybe not today. We just go out and get on the bike and we try and we might fall or we might stumble, but we do it. And I think that's the lesson that we need to carry forward in our lives, that confidence comes through action. It comes from doing. The more you do, the more you feel good about it.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that, but you know, I and I I don't, you're gonna, I know you're gonna add more to this, but I feel when when did that stop? Like when did we start judging ourselves before just going and getting on the bike?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

I think with women, um, because I work with women and I am a woman, and I I literally grew up at a time where where girls were told to dream small, to not take up space, to not um to not be seen or heard. So I think that that kind of uh messaging really ends up impacting us. And so I would say, you know, and studies, I I I taught women in gender studies at a university for a while, and studies show that young girls, even as young as say eight, nine, it used to be like 13, but now it's even lower, they start feeling the social pressures and they start feeling they, you know, we're bombarded with all these messages constantly, whether we it goes into our brain and our subconscious, whether we want them to or not. And so that you know, if you look at the messaging we get as women and as girls, it's really kind of brutal. I mean, it just it's still that message is still very strong about you have to look perfect, you know, you have to, you know, say the right thing, you have to be an influencer because you can do this and this. And I mean, those things really impact our self-esteem and our confidence.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Yeah. It's it's really sad when you know when you really think about it. But I think we all, and this is just my own opinion, but I think everybody has that to some degree. But women, like you see, like we were like we were getting the messages in so many different ways, and we allowed those messages to really sink into our being, right? And so we had to become those messages, which is really, really sad. Yeah. And and I know, like, I like look at my, you know, my mom's generation and how they talk to us, and how now how we like you know, women my age are talking to our kids and their generation, and it's it's like it's different, but it's also like it's all uh almost more similar. Like I hear a lot of well, wait till you're my age, right? From both generations, and it's almost like we're we're predicting that you know, you might think that you're free and carefree and can make whatever choices you want today, but there will come a time where that will come to an end, right? And and it, I I almost feel like we need to like just stop talking, right? You know, like stop the messaging because I don't know what your future looks like, right? And when you were my age and you know what your, you know, that that timeline between my age and your age now, like we all have our own different paths to walk. You don't know what I'm gonna go through and and you know, vice versa, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:24

I I totally agree. And and the the the and it's not I that we stop talking, you know, that that that would um I don't know that that would be helpful either. Because I think we we we you know from generation to generation, we do learn and we do depend on certain, you know, um certain handed down wisdom. And but I think the messaging has to change. Um, I don't know, um, and once again, working with women, and I've done a lot of studies on masculinity and where it's come from and how it's shaped. You know, it's very rare that you would hear a mom saying, say, um, you know, are you gonna wear that to a young man, you know, to a boy? It's kind of like, okay, whatever, you know, he got dressed by himself, you know.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Yeah. Although I did say that to my boys, but I know what you mean, right? We don't say twice when we're looking at, you know, talking at our girls that way, but with our boys, we're like, you know, well, whatever, if he's comfortable. But and I have said this before. I often wonder if it's because as a woman, we know what our daughters are capable, or we think we know what our daughters are capable of and what they should know, right? Because I'm a woman, you and I can relate. I don't know what it's like to be a man, right? I don't know what it's like to be a teenage boy, right? I don't know if if that's you know, kind of on the same wavelength of as what you're talking, right? Because I mean, but I don't know. I said that to my daughter lots of times, right? Because I thought as a woman, I knew what she was capable of. But the truth is, because I'm capable of this doesn't mean she is.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

That's right. Yeah. An example though, I use or I used to use in my classes is um when my daughter was, I think she was probably in third grade or something like that. She got in a tussle on the playground and she got sent to the principal's office. And the principal called me in. Well, your daughter was fighting on the playground. And I just looked at him and I said, Do you call in the mothers of young boys when they have a? I mean, that nobody got hurt. It wasn't like a punch or drag or you know, anything like that. They were just tussling. And I said, Do you call the parents of the young boys in when they kind of have rough house on the playground? Well, no, but that's different. I said, No, it's not. Don't talk to me until you do it to them too. I just walked out, you know. But that's the kind of thing that still to some extent goes on. And we have, we've had, we've made a lot of advancement. We really have. But there's still that that's those subtle messaging that still comes through.

Owning Your Voice In Meetings

SPEAKER_02 9:15

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I think you're right. Uh, you know, you wrote a book, uh, Unstoppable Women, Owning Our Voices and Leading Change. Yes.

unknown 9:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

I know this your book is basically it's a call to action. What does owning your voice truly mean in today's professional and personal landscapes?

SPEAKER_01 9:38

What I think, and the reason I chose those words is there are still so many instances where women are talked over, discounted, their words don't fall the same way. You know, whether you're in a corporate world at a meeting and you say something, I mean, you hear I hear this all the time in in different meetings. Well, I said something and they didn't really respond, and then somebody else said the same thing, and they were all, yeah, that's a great idea. It still happens. And so what I really work with women is how do you use your voice strategically and so that it is heard, and so that people take notice and take per, you know, they want your perspective. Your perspective influences the decisions, and um, so that's that's kind of what, and even in the personal life, I mean, I, you know, how many times have have we heard, oh, I don't know why you feel that way. I feel that way, you know. I'm telling you, I feel that way, you know, and just the different um different ways that we are once again, those little subtle things that that kind of sometimes it makes you doubt, you know, your own what you're saying. You know, and I really did learn that a lot. I I really what I what when where I learned about messaging and communications and how it's not just what you say, but how somebody hears you is working in politics. And I did that for a long time in Texas. And um, whether it was advocacy lobbying or you know, running political campaigns, whatever, really shaping how you say it, timing of when you say it. And I'm not saying you have to, you know, worry about every word you say, it's just knowing enough about what you value, what your strengths are, and where you do have an expertise, and then putting it out there in a way that people really want to listen to you.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Yeah. And it's yeah, like it's not necessarily what you say, it's how you say it, like you said, right? But it's also knowing when to say it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, you know, and and they say so much of communication is nonverbal. And just one little example. When I worked in politics, um, in the very beginning, um, I there was a communications, I worked through the uh uh medical association, and there was a communications expert that came in and you know, kind of had us present things and just analyzed how we presented them. And what the woman said to me, she knows, Kathy, do you really want to work in politics? And I was like, Well, yeah, I I really I'm passionate about making change and impact and helping women because I was working on a lot of women's issues. And she goes, Well, you're scary. I went, What? Me? I'm scary. She goes, Yeah, not because you're scary, scary, but you know, and this was back in the 90s and um the early 2000s. She said, You're, I was, I'm tall, you can't tell sitting down, but I am tall, and I have a presence. I, you know, I speak well. This is what she told me. You speak well, you have a presence, you have you know what you're thinking and you you share it. And that can be scary for a lot of people. And so she said, so one thing, one thing she told me to do, and it really worked, was especially, you know, this is a testosterone-laced environment, you know, mostly men back then, still. Um, and she said, sit down when you're talking to people. Sit down and just, you know, be on the same level. So I said, okay. And so I started doing that. And even without changing my word sometimes, just sitting down and, you know, being like this face to face, they were more comfortable. But I also learned when I really wanted to make my point and I wasn't being heard, I stood up because all of a sudden it's like, whoa.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

So that's that's making me think when I had my kids. So I had my kids, you know, early 2000s. And, you know, I don't know what they called it back then, but it was like positive parenting. And they, you know, like they, you know, it was kind of knowing that if you want to get through to your kids, you have to get down on your hands and knees so that you can look them in the eye and have a conversation with them. And I remember, I remember thinking that is ridiculous. But I noticed that when I did that, my kids actually heard me. Yeah, right. And when you stand over them, I mean it's intimidating, right? And when you think about it, like as a child, you know, you're looking at this adult who's angry, and the body language alone tells them that they've done something wrong, right? And now you're yelling at me like they're not gonna hear anything, they're just gonna see this big power over me, right? And I mean, it makes sense, like it makes sense in a boardroom meeting or in you know, in a professional setting. Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

So that's so so you know, it's just the the little things like that that we don't necessarily learn. And you know, that's part of what I what I share with the women I work with, that just you know, just little shifts sometimes that can make such a big difference.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Wow, I love that. I love that. I mean, I I mean, I remember like when I finally clued in when my kids were little, I'm like, oh my God, this is so good. But I never really put it in the context of you know being in a professional setting. Although, like now that we're discussing it, it makes so much more sense to me, right? That it would work on all humans, not just, you know, children. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

So now you've worked with many women and you've worked in many different contexts, including, you know, the United Nations, which I'm sure is like a huge story in itself. How can women leverage their uniqueness to influence like the decisions that um on a global stage?

SPEAKER_01 15:50

That that I love that question because that's exactly where I hone in and um on any stage, but also the global stage. Um, one, I think one of the key things is recognizing our strengths, our passion, and our power. Women are very, very almost hesitant to say even the word power, you know, and yet we do have power. I mean, over our children, taking care of the calendar at home, if we're, you know, uh at the head of a team at work. Um, we there there's a certain power related to that, but it really is useful when you know what you um what you want, where you want to go, and who you are. Those are three key things. And sometimes I think, especially, well, I don't know about men, but I know women, we don't always take the time to do that. We just, well, yeah, yeah, I organized the, you know, the the corporate event because they asked me to. That's that's a lot of you know skill sets to do that. And so um I think that's the first first thing. And then like like I've been saying, how to how to learn to use that, you know, strategically, who to message, when to message. I worked with a woman in um in Nairobi in Africa who she became a leader through necessity. I mean, it was the community had a need, you know, she's a grassroots community-based woman. They had a need, she saw this need. Women were were the hospital was some distance away from her her village, and women were dying in in childbirth because they couldn't get to the hospital. So she saw this need, and she arranged with her community and different uh people in her community to set up a little clinic in uh part of a church building so that women could go there and they had what you call here, maybe what you'd call midwives or doulas that they trained so that they could help in childbirth. I mean, she literally saw once what she said the thing that just got to her one time was she saw a woman being wheeled in a wheeled barrow in labor trying to get to the hospital.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

And she's like, no, no, no, no, can't be. You know, she was a mother herself. So she arranged all this and it built up and it built up, and they ended up getting an ambulance. She got fundraising. These are all incredible skills and incredible powers, superpowers. And in the end, she is now considered an expert at the UN on caregiving and uncompensated caregiving, you know, because women do most of the caregiving in the world and they don't get paid for it, or they don't even sometimes get acknowledged for it. And she's invited to meetings. She goes to about half a dozen meetings a year where she's invited as the expert voice. And so what I did with her is I helped her, I helped her work on, you know, who to talk to, when to talk to them, what what is your message? What are you really asking for? What is the important parts of that whole caregiving? Because it's a big umbrella. You know, what are the important aspects of it so that you stay on message? Because so many times I know I do this too. You start on one topic and then you think of something else, and you go, oh yeah, and that's you know, oh, and yeah, that well, your message just got lost.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Yeah, yeah. I can I can relate there a hundred percent. Yes, we all can. Yeah. Wow, that's a that's an amazing story, actually.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

She's an amazing woman. Oh my God. She's just I get to be with her next week because there's a couple of UN meetings I'm going to before I head out to LA. Um, I'm I'm going to an uh Oscar's celebrity event to promote my new TV show that I'm working on. Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Oh my gosh, that sounds so amazing.

Breaking Comparison And Needing Approval

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah, it is gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

So, I mean, after hearing that, you know, uh amazing story, um, you know, makes me wonder like women, like in general, we often like, you know, we're always comparing ourselves. You know, we're always we're always like, oh, you know, she does that better than me, or I wish I could do that as, you know, the way she does, or we're looking for validation through, you know, usually external validation, right? Because we don't, we never think that, and I mean I speak for you know, all women, but really, I mean, myself and most women that I work with, right? We're always looking outside of ourselves for some kind of you know, okay, like it's okay to do that, like a validation. How do you help women step into that confidence that doesn't really like rely or require the approval of that of someone else?

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Yeah, and and actually that's great that we circled back to that because that is kind of an um what I call a little bit upper-level confidence work that needs to be done. You know, once you've realize that you have to do things to gain the confidence, it's how do you really hone in on, you know, maintaining that. We we all once in a while doubt ourselves. I mean, we have this little thing on our shoulder going, you know, and we do. But I get back to the when you know yourself, you know what you're good at, and you've really taken the time to acknowledge that you're good at it. And I that's what I help women with. You know, I show them, you know, this is not you know, because let me back up just a little bit. When I do something that other people think, wow, I'm like, I did it, it's normal. Well, yeah, but I should also recognize that it's not maybe somebody else's strength. For me, it's a normal, but it might not be somebody else's strength. So I have to really recognize and say, oh yeah, you know, I am good at that. And get that ingrained into our mindset. And once we do that, then then I think that you don't look as much through for external validation. I'll add to that though, as a caveat, that women need women that support them. Yes. And we are so often, you know, be nice to everybody. And so we have, you know, I've had people in my life, women and men in my life, where on retrospect I'm going, they really weren't building me up. You know, they weren't really the support I thought they were. Because, you know, now I can see it, but back then I was emotionally involved in it all that, you know, I just I kept the friendship because we'd been friends for so long. Well, you know, I guess to a point where they're there's a they're just, you know, they're not there the way you need them. They're not bad people, they just don't fill your needs.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Right. But don't you look back now at those relationships and see that there was something about that relationship that you needed to learn either about yourself or about you know the the general public, right? Because I believe that everyone and everything comes into your life for a reason, right? And you might not see it at the moment, you know, you might have to wait 10, 15, 20 years. But when you look back, you go, oh yeah, because of that, I do this, right? I always tell my daughter. So my my daughter is very open to hearing all about the coaching world, right? And so I her and I have really good, deep conversations, but I always tell her that there's always something to learn in a situation that you're in, whether you see it or you don't. Like I remember like I used to, I worked at a grocery store in my first job, you know, in high school. And it was such like it was a petty job to me, right? Like it was like I couldn't wait to get out of there. And I thought, I'm not even learning anything, right? Like typical, typical teenager, right? Like, what's the point, right? It's just about a paycheck. But when I started working in a bank and I realized what I learned about talking with people and you know, the whole strategy behind getting through all your work for the day, I was like, oh my God. I bet I worked at the bank for a good seven years before I realized that what I was doing, I had learned when I worked at the grocery store. Right. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

And we just, you know, there's that, yeah, there's that, there's a famous quote, and I I can never quote it, but it it's, you know, the whole thing about people come into your lives at a you know, when you need them to be there or and you learn something from them, but they're not there to stay necessarily. Right. But and that's that I think is definitely a mindset that also is important for any kind of growth, is that you can learn from everybody. Everybody is the expert of their lives and what they've lived through, and so their perspective is going to be different than yours, even with my two sisters. Our, you know, we grew up in the same household, we're not that big of age difference from each other, but we lived it differently, so we have different perspectives, and I can learn from anybody and everybody's perspective because it show it opens a window to something that I never imagined or heard of before.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Yeah, well, because like you said, we're all living our own experience, even though you're in the same house with the same people, the way you filter it through your mind and body and soul is different because you are unique, right? You are your own person, right? Just like you know, your sister is her own person, my brother is his own person. Like that's just the way we are meant to live our lives. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah, exactly. And I I think once we open our our minds to the fact that that's everybody, it doesn't have to be somebody you've known for a long time, you know. Anybody uh one thing I've I I moved up here to the Northeast um not too long ago. Um, I actually grew up here, but um I was away for a long time. And what I love about it is you just strike up conversations anywhere and you learn so much from people. I mean, whether I'm on the, you know, I'm sometimes I'm on the train or the subway or at the grocery store, you know, or at a meeting, and you know, you just strike up a conversation, and it just it's amazing what I learned and something I didn't think of before. I go, wow, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna think on that.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah, it's so true. Like you're standing in the lineup at the grocery store, right? I'm a talker, so I talk to you know, whoever will talk back with me, right? My kids hate it. My kids are like, oh God, she's gonna start talking again. But but I learned so much about people, right? And it makes me like it makes me more curious. Like, gee, I wonder what kind of a life they led, right? For them to be so optimistic or you know, bitter, because I mean, you know, unfortunately there's both, right? You can have the guy in front of you who's super optimistic, and the guy behind you is bitching and complaining because this lineup's not moving, right? Right, exactly. So, but it makes you wonder like what what in your life has happened, right, to make you feel and act the way that you are, right? I I find it really intriguing, right? And I and I love that we have like we have the freedom really to be able to do that, right? To learn about other people because it helps us deal with our own, you know, our own life. I mean, obviously, if you're having a three-minute conversation, it's it might not make that big of an impact on you, but sometimes it can. Like I remember I heard somewhere uh a couple only wanted one kid. And then this old man, you know, came and sat with them at a restaurant one day, and he basically made her feel guilty, you know, for only wanting one kid because you're you're depriving this kid of so much life and experience, and they ended up having three kids because of that one conversation, right? And I always think, you know, that's that's what we're that's why we interact with other humans so that we can make decisions based on you know love and kindness, right?

Compassionate Leadership And Women Backing Women

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it also opens up your your capabilities to come back, to be compassionate and to to be more understanding. And you know, just to to refer back to my book a little bit, basically what the book is, is it's a it's a it's almost a how-to book as far as it goes through the different traits of what I've I have studied and learned are leadership traits, you know, because it's not the old curmudgeon in the office yelling orders anymore. Even, you know, Forbes, Harvard Business Review, all these major publications now recognize that compassionate leadership is what it takes. And women are really good at it. There's there's there's the different traits I go through in the book that women are really good with, whether it's nurture, nature, you know, I don't get into that conversation, but these are things we to traditionally have been good at. So that's why we're good leaders. We just have to recognize that and step into it and really use those skills and to elevate our, because you know, people, I at least want a legacy, I want to have an impact, I want to influence things in a positive way. And I think most of us do. And to do that, we need to go through a little bit of the work to um recognize what we want and how we want to impact it and what we'd like to see happen so that we can be, we can influence part of that.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Yeah, I love that. I actually love that because I remember 30 years ago when women were in management positions in the bank, it was almost frowned on. Like they they, you know, even like the staff that were under them did not like women managers. And I think it was not about even like leadership and doing the job that they were there to do. I think it was more about the competition that I can do this better than a man, right? And and now, I mean, I mean, we're 30, I can't believe I'm saying it's 30, it's been 30 years since that, right? But but when you think about that, like we've come a long way because now women can take on that position because they know that they're capable, right? They deserve to be in that position. And they can, you know, create a legacy, like you were saying, or they can, you know, they can show that this company is is worth, you know, they've given me a position that I deserve because I I know what I'm doing, but now I can bring this company to even further growth and and whatever else that they're you know aiming for. So I think we've come a long way in the last 30 years. And of course, there's always that mindset that no, it's still a man's world, and it it will be until we stop saying that, right? Until we let that go. Once we stop saying it's a man's world, then us women can do the job that we're meant to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Yes, and and um sometimes I'm trying to remember who said this. I am so bad with quotes. I remember the the context, but it's about you know, if you think it sometimes, you know, it it happens. And so, like you're saying, if we stop that mindset and say, no, I'm gonna go and do that, and I'm gonna be the best I can be, and that's going to benefit this organization, this company, this my business, whatever, then I think that does um influence how we move forward. I will say, having once again taught this and studied it, the statistically it still is harder for women. And um, you know, that's shown whether it's in pay gap, whether it's in how many women are reach the top or even middle management, there is a bit of a um a challenge that women have to deal with that sometimes men aren't uh forced to deal with. So, but as women, if we collaborate and if we work together and if we we promote each other, like one of the things that you know, I I mentioned this earlier about you know being in a meeting and and you saying something and then somebody using your idea um and them getting the the kudos. I I I had I got to the point where I said, Oh, I'm glad you so you agree with Diane because she I think that's a great idea that she brought up. And I'm glad to see you agree with it. You know, so we have to support each other in making sure that that we're recognized for the work we we do. And you know, we don't want to be that busy woman, you know. They say, you know, if you want something done, give it to a busy woman and she'll get it done. Well, yes, she probably will, because she has that that um that desire to to see something done and to get it done and be be recognized for it, but you don't always get recognized for it. You just become that woman that everyone will give stuff to. And we what I really work with is how do you get uh out of that overwork into being respected for your for your opinions, for your your your what you bring to the table and to be involved in those decisions? Because I love that, you know, but that's that's one of those nuanced shifts that um that we need to be making more often.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Yes, absolutely. And so tell me, what are um are there like do you have a list of practical steps that women can take to like you know fully embrace and and then show up as as themselves authentically and then not be like apologetic about it?

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Yes, I actually actually do, and that's a good portion of what my book is, not that I'm trying to, you know, sell my book, but that's what I that's the format that I did for the book. Every chapter has, you know, these are things you can do, this is what you know, practices to try, these, you know, these are some strategies to consider. But I also have, and I will, I guess we could put it in the show notes. I have um, you know, uh uh a gift, I guess you could say, where it is, you know, four shifts that you can make immediately to to kind of change your trajectory, to really, you know, start start with with some changes in how you're you lead, how you how you are perceived. And I, you know, I'll give you that link.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Yeah, that sounds wonderful. And so what would this like, what does that look like? Is that for someone who works in corporate, or is it someone who is an entrepreneur, like, or is it someone who you know is basically like not working? Like, is it something that every woman can benefit from?

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yes, yeah, well, I I do work with corporate, I work with entrepreneurs, and and the messaging is a little bit differently, but the the concepts are the same, whether it's in your personal life at home, whether it's in a an organization, whether it's in academics, politic politics, at the UN. I mean, some of these are just core um principles about women and leadership. And so, and that's what I I work with work with and work on because there's nuances for different groups, but the messaging is the same. We all want to be recognized for not just what we do, but what we think, what we have to bring to the table. We want to be included in decisions. We want to, whether it's about the household or the boardroom or about how I'm going to run my business as an entrepreneur, we want to be, you know, I I kind of say that um what I try and do is um I work I try I work with women so their ideas are heard, and so that those ideas move people and shape what happens next. And I think that's that that applies to anything, any part of your life.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that. And so when you say you work with women, um, like do you write speeches for them? Is that what you do? Or you No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

I do I coach, I I coach women and I have, you know, I do some one-on-one coaching and I also have a coaching program that um, you know, it's it's rather intensive because most women who want to elevate their their leadership potential or their influence don't want to, you know, work on it for 12 months or you know, that not that that's bad. It's just most of them want to do it. I want to know kind of like your question, what can I start doing now to make a difference? Yeah. And I think that that's that's really where I you know, I I I have a program where we meet meet weekly and you know, we I call it homework because I worked in in a you know university as a professor. So I call you know, but you have some videos to watch and some some questions to think about so that when we come together, um that you we're we're talking about it from a similar level, and that's that way we can move forward more easily and and better.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Right. I love that. I love that. So those we'll attach those to the uh show notes and and uh you can, you know, all the listeners can, you know, kind of learn, you know, what's what what will work for them and what won't.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Yeah, because it's it's gotta be, you know, it's gotta be customized. Every what we were just talking about, how unique people are. So, you know, the bait there's the basic core principles, but but they have to be customized to the person or you know, and the woman that and how she's living her life and her her journey right now and what pathway she's on.

Midlife Liberation And Focus

SPEAKER_02 38:48

So yeah, you know, that whole right now is really like it's really hitting me like at this season in my life, like, you know, because I was like a stay-at-home mom. Like first I worked corporate and then I was a stay-at-home mom, and now I'm out on my own, and I'm thinking, okay, so is this how I'm gonna end my life? And then I think, you know, like, you know, okay, so 10, 15 years from now, do I still want to be working or do I want to be doing something different? Like it's it's it's you know, right now is what matters, right? And then you can move on to different, you know, different shoes, you know, as the years go on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

So and I think for women, uh, you know, what what the what studies show and the trends kind of show is that women, once they're they're, you know, in their 40s and 50s and 60s, it's a liberation because you know, some of the things that we had, you know, like either motherhood or or you know, families or or just doing what we have to do, we're at we're past that now. And we can actually look and say, oh, I mean, I know I yes, I did some suffer some emptiness when my daughter went to college, but at the same time, I was like, wow, I don't have to get her to school every day. I don't have to worry about this, I don't have to worry about that. You know, you still worry your mom for the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Well, you worry, but it's a different kind of it is like it's something, it's like, you know, you don't have to do anything to make anything happen. Like you she you kind of have to leave her to her own, you know, her own advice. Whereas you now only have to look after you, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:27

I I went back and got my master's degree it when when my daughter left for college. Good for you, you know. I thought, well, I don't, you know, I don't have all this this daily stuff to deal with. And there was, you know, I wanted to really um get into uh well it's in public policy and administration because at that point I was working a lot in in politics and I thought I'm just gonna I'm gonna go do this.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

Good for you.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Good for you, because that's not an easy feat, right? Like when we get into our you know 40s and 50s, I mean, we're like it's not as easy to learn the way we did in in school, right? But that's not to say that you can't. I mean, it's it's obviously you know, retraining of the brain and and all the things that go with that. It's not unheard of though, right? But lots of people are like, I am not doing that, I am not going back to school.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Yeah. But I think the biggest thing was, yeah, it was I had to concentrate a little bit more, but I think part of that was because I was so used to distractions. Yeah, you know, we build that into our life, distractions. I mean, even now I have to deal with, you know, I have to kind of this is what I'm doing at this right now, and I'm not going to be distracted, even though there's bings and there's we mails and there's, you know, all this stuff going on. But, you know, getting away from those distractions, I had fun and it was really, I mean, I really enjoyed it because I didn't have all those distractions.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Yeah, I never thought about that, but you're right. I mean, we've had and we get so used to them, right? We get so used to the distractions that we don't know how to not have them. And I think that's part of the whole empty nesting, you know, um, stage of life too. It's it's not just that your kids have moved out or they've moved on. It's also it's more about like, what do I do now? Like there's no, I don't have, you know, dirty underwear to clean up off the floor. I don't have, you know, I don't have to like make a thousand beds every day. Well, not that I have a thousand beds to make, but you know, right. But I know I get what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Like all of a sudden we're like, okay, so now what do I do? I have like, you know, I don't have just like six hours in the day that I'm free to do my own. I have like, you know, 20 hours every day to do my own thing. So yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Now, are you still hosting um Holt Talks the Lead?

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Yes, that's the TV show that I'm that I'm producing and and also hosting. And what it is, it's a um it's an interview show. And um, I just do one interview per show, and I just talk with women leaders about what was their journey, what did they learn? Um, why did they take it? And what what would they share with you know women who are aspiring to elevate their their levels of influence? So it's just um I really it's we're we've got a we haven't launched it yet. We've got a couple, as they said, in the can. Um so, but it's getting ready to launch hopefully by the end of this month or the very beginning of April. So, but it's been it's been love, I have loved it because I get to hear so many stories and people.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Yeah. Well, that's what I love about the podcast because I get to talk to so many different women like yourself. And there's so many, like we've all been through, you know, like there's many people that have walked the earth for 54 years, like myself, but every single one of us have been on like we've just lived a different journey, right? Absolutely. Not all like not everybody lives trauma, not everybody lives the high life. It's all the stories in the middle, right? That bring us to where we are that I love hearing about. So you've already interviewed a few of the women. So do you have any stories or insights that you would like to share?

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Um, they're also amazing, the stories. Uh I I I would it would be so hard to pick just one. It really would, because they all have they're just fascinating. And like you said, they've all faced different challenges, but and been very creative about the way they've they've made sure that they stayed on their path.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Yeah, and I think I love that you said the word creative because I think that that's that has a lot to do with how we do what we do, right? In order for us to continue loving what we're doing, we need to stay creative to keep us on top, right? Just not necessarily keep us on top as far as you know, competitive, but more like just to keep us on top of our game, right? Be creative and enjoyment, yeah, be like enjoy what you're doing because you know, your why has a big to do with what you're doing, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

So how that's another one of those skills. I mean, like if that's in my book, is is women are tend to be very good at creative thinking because we have to. We juggle so many different things at once, and people come to us with, you know, this problem or that problem or this, you know, what do I do about this? Or and you know, we're expected to to figure something out. So we do we're very creative and in how we're, you know, and our flexibility and how we handle things. Um, and once again, whether that's learned or ingrained, I don't know, you know, but it it's real, it's there, it's real.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

Tina, if you want to sell this, you need to sell it to your kids because you spent, you know, 16, 18 years selling to your kids every single day. And I was like, no, I didn't. I said this is how it's gonna work, but but I have three kids and they're all different. And so, in order for me to make this work, you know, I had to word it differently, I had to do it differently so that I could make them understand. And, you know, I always think of that, you know, when we're trying to sell something, how would you sell this to your kids? Because it's not just about money when you're selling, right? It's more about it's the pitch, it's the it's the goal, the value, the belief, it's all of the things in them in between.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

So yes and the service to me, it's also the service, right? I I I you know, I think we all have something valuable to to offer and you know, that's somebody out there can benefit from. And, you know, to keep it all bottled up inside to me is is sad. I mean, because somebody could really, you know, it could change their life, like that one man who talked to this couple about having children. I mean, it just you just don't know unless we share, you know, stories. And I don't, you know, I don't necessarily usually call them stories, even though that's what most people call them. I call them lived truths. Ah, because sometimes stories think, you know, they think, oh, you know, fiction, you know, she made that. But in reality, it's our lived truths, and we, you know, we don't know how it will impact somebody. That is so, but there is somebody out there that can that can learn or or you can help them maybe not, you know, make the same mistakes that you had to to learn through the hard knocks.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

Yeah, yeah. I love that actually. I like that you pointed that out because yeah, it's about your experience, it's not about you know the story behind it. Yeah. So how can women move from feeling like their ideas are optional to becoming authorities in their fields?

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Uh for that, I mean, there's there's quite a few steps. You know, there there are quite a few steps in that process because it one, it's kind of breaking some habits and some mindsets into other, you know, and introducing other beliefs into, you know, and it's inside us lots of times. Right, right. Yeah. Yes, we we look for that external, you know, uh validation, but it's it's really inside us. And, you know, change is hard. Change is hard for everybody. I mean, you know, just uh, you know, I used to do this experiment in my class, you know, we used to cross our hands one way, and then I'd say, okay, try and put the other hand on top. And you'd be amazed at how many kids were going this and this and this. I mean, they couldn't, you know, just crossing your arms differently. And so, you know, so it is hard, but once again, you get back into knowing who you are. That's the biggest step is really looking at who you are and what what you value. And that's kind of the first stepping stone into moving in in any direction. And then once you, you know, once once um that happens, then there's all different kinds of you know, skills and strategies and and things that that we we move into to sh once again customize for each person and what what that particular woman needs at that particular time and what she's trying to uh what her dream is, what her goal is, then we can we can look at some real real specific down-to-earth things.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

I love that. I love that because that's that seems to be like the number one thing, right? With all everything that we do is know who you really are. What do you really believe in? What do you really truly want? Right? Do I want something that is coming from within, or am I just wanting something because the rest of my family wants it or all my friends want it, or or whatever the case may be? Yeah, that's that's good advice.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

What advice listening to one of your other other podcasts, especially the one about about burnout, you know, when you know those things, you start knowing when to say yes and no. And, you know, it you don't feel guilty about saying no. Well, sometimes I still feel guilty about saying no, but then I, you know, I have to remind myself, this doesn't take me in the direction I want to go. This isn't where I can use my strengths the best. So so I can say no, but I also learn to say yes to those things that will move me on my path.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Right. Right. I love that, right? Because when you know what your future is gonna look like if you continue on this path, right? Because I mean, I my my daughter has a friend, she's like 24 and she's been burned out twice, right? And I'm looking, and I like said to her, like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Right, you say yes to everything.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Yeah, you know this is gonna bring you in the in the wrong direction. And she's like, I know, but I I get like you know, it's it's a habit, it's a pattern that we all, you know, we tend to have. And because she's younger, I well, I I blame her age because she doesn't have the strength and the experience to like make her make that decision to say, you know, this is gonna lead me down the wrong path, right? You know, it and and you know, I don't know if that's life experience, I don't know if that's age, right? But like you said, when you've been there already, right, you know this is bringing me in a direction I don't want to go. Yeah, right. And no is it's a full sentence, right? Yep, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

You know, earlier earlier in my life when I had a harder time saying no, uh, somebody, an older woman who was uh who was quite a mentor to me, she said, you know, if you have a hard time saying no, Kathy, just say, I don't think so. You know, because it's hard to question that. Right. And you can say it in a lot of different tones of voice, you know, like as a mom. I don't think so.

unknown 52:26

Right?

SPEAKER_02 52:27

Well, and that's the thing. Like if you're selling to your kids, if your kids ask you, mom, can you do this for me? No, I don't think so, right? Even though you know, you know you can. It's not that you can't, I would do anything for my kids, but there comes a time or there is a time when you know that they're just as capable as you are, yeah, right. And they're only asking you because they don't want to do it. Yeah, that's easy.

unknown 52:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:53

So it's like, yeah, no, I don't, I don't think so. Yeah, I love that. Now, Kathy, do you have any advice for um for women today who want to unapologetically stand in their power and impact their world authentically?

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Um well, yeah, gosh, I probably have could talk about that all day long. Because um I think it goes back a little bit to what we were talking about earlier, and that is don't feel like you have to be a hundred percent ready, but just start, start like getting on that first bicycle. There's there's been a couple of times in my life where I things have happened, and um I was, you know, an opportunity would pop up and I would stop and I'd think, should I do that? Should I not do that? You know, does it and then I kind of go back to but what do I really want? Um just another example. Um when I was getting a little burned out on politics because of how um how it was the direction it was going and how it became very divisive. Whereas when I was started working, it wasn't. Um, they actually worked together to solve problems. And a friend called me who um from college and she said the Maldives is having their first multi-candidate president presidential election, because it was a dictatorship up until then, and they had elections, but you know, it was just one guy, so you couldn't not vote for him. And they need somebody to do a voter education program for the country and teach a team to do it. And I was like, I've been working in politics for 17 years, and I thought, hmm, yeah, but oh, I don't know, that's far away, and this and that, and on and you know, I had all these things that got into my brain, you know, that little thing, the little guy on my shoulder going, and I said, let me think about it. So I hung up the phone and um I thought I literally only thought about it overnight because I thought, you know what? I have been working to make an impact, and especially for women, and I did give them some conditions, like there had to get, you know, it's a Muslim country, it's not it was not an extreme Muslim country, it's a very, very um um open country, but it it was a Muslim country, and so um I did say I will do it if there are women on the team that I train. And I was like, oh my God, what did I just say yes to? You know, what am I gonna do? I've never taught, I mean, I did voter education, but I never put together a whole curriculum about how to do it in a country. But it was one of those things that it was true to who I, what I believed in and what my passion was, you know, bringing women to the forefront and making sure their voices are heard. And so I said, I just jumped in with two feet. So I get, you know, that's a long story to say. When women know what they want to do and where they want to go and what really lights them, what lights them up, what gives them energy, what um do they get excited about? Then when those things, when opportunities come up, they can say yes and they can step into that power, they can step into their authenticity because they know what that is. And when you're prepared like that, you'll see that opportunities start popping up all over the place because you're you're tuned to them.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

Yeah, yeah, and you call them in, right? You call them in when you're yeah, I love that story. And so how did that all go for you?

SPEAKER_01 57:07

Oh, it was an incredible experience. I got to live for two two months in the no thro almost three months in the Maldives. Um, it was it was um, it had its its its tense moments. We had one um we had one public celebration, I guess you could say, about voting, and you know, some of the anti-um democracy people came and stirred things up, and one person got stabbed, and they had to rush us away with security. And but, you know, but it was, oh my God, it it I learned so much, and I learned so much from the people there. I mean, it was just so amazing to, you know, to be immersed in another culture and and with other people and just um learn from them. It it it it really did, I think it changed, it changed me, it transformed me significantly, not just personally, but it also showed me that I could do it, I could have an impact, that I could do something that was outside my comfort zone, that I could get on that bicycle, even though I had no idea how to work it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 58:20

That's but that's but that's what we want to hear, right? We want to hear stories like that, right? Because if there's anyone, you know, contemplating a big move or you know, a you know, a new business or a new venture, we we want to hear that, you know, it's not all gonna be a bowl full of cherries, as my mom used to say, right? There's gonna be some sour, you know, some sour grapes in the bowl, right? But you need to learn that's scary. Yeah, like that's scary, but you need to learn that you can do it. You can you can get through that, right? Yep. Oh my gosh, I love that story. So is there anything that we didn't discuss today that you want our listeners to hear?

SPEAKER_01 59:05

Wow, we've caught we've had such an incredible conversation. I've really, really we've delved into so many different things. It's been so much fun. I think the biggest thing, the biggest idea, I guess I would like women to take away is that no matter where you are in your your path and your leadership journey and in what you're creating in your life, that um that it's doable. It's doable. You might have to learn some new things, you might have to, you know, start believing a little differently. And it's like you said, it's not always a bowl bowl full of cherries, but you can do it. And you know, that's why that's why people like me exist to help women on that journey. You know, I have a friend that says, you know, even the best basketball players in the world have coaches, and you know, we all need them. I have I have coaches, you know, for for things that come up in in my business and in my world and in my challenges that I'm like, I don't know, I haven't I haven't ever dealt with that before. So let me go ask somebody who has, and I can learn from them. So I just think that that it's not um it's not it's not a deficit or it's not that you don't know something. You know, it's there's um I think my mom always said it, but it was I'm sure it was somebody's quote that you know that it the the to be successful in life, it's not knowing everything, it's knowing where to get the information you need and the help you need when you need it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Yeah, it's and I I love that. That's actually like perfect because I'm learning, you know, in my years now in the last that that's it's true, right? It's not all just you know right in front of us. Thank you so much today for thank you for joining me, sharing your wisdom and inspiring us all to embrace our individuality and power. This has been so great.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

And I thank you. I love this conversation. You you you have a great podcast, and you I just I welcome, I feel so welcomed in being here with you because you are you have all this wisdom also, and you shared with me, and I've learned a bunch of things too.

Bloom Room Links And Farewell

SPEAKER_02 1:01:42

So I love that. Thank you so much, listeners. If you're ready to step into your confidence, own your story, and show up fully as yourself, I invite you to join the Bloom Room, our private community for women who want to who want support, tools, and connection to grow unapologetically. And if you're looking for deeper personalized guidance, my private coaching is designed to help you break free from comparison, amplify your influence, and live boldly as you. Check the show notes for links to both the Bloom Room and Coaching. Your next chapter starts unapologetically today.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

Thanks for listening. This show was brought to you by Divas That Care. Connect with us on Facebook, on Instagram, and of course on divas that care.com, where you can subscribe to our newsletter so you don't miss a thing.