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Divas That Care Network
Sacred Nature Connections 2
Join Host Joyce Benning as she interviews a variety of committed women weekly, whom are working to make the world a better place! #DivasThatCare
BIO: Deb Matlock grew up in the mountains of Colorado and is deeply committed to nurturing the connection between people, animals, earth, and spirit. She has spent twenty-five years working as a professional environmental and humane educator and naturalist. Additionally, Deb offers shamanic- style spiritual guidance, animal communication, nature connection workshops, and retreats through her business, Wild Rhythms. She is passionate about helping people find connection and deep spiritual meaning in their lives and in the places where they live. Deb holds a Master of Arts in Environmental Education from Prescott College and is pursuing her doctoral degree in environmental studies at Antioch University New England.
We explore the sacred connections between humans and the natural world, diving into ways to communicate with what guest Deb Matlock calls the "more-than-human world." This conversation challenges us to recognize that we're part of a magical dance with all life forms on Earth, not separate from or superior to the rest of nature.
• Understanding the term "more-than-human world" – the birds, animals, rivers, trees, landscapes, and sky that make up our larger community
• Approaching nature communication as normal and natural rather than strange or "woo-woo"
• Recognizing that communication with nature has existed across cultures and throughout human history
• Embracing that there is no single "right way" to communicate with the more-than-human world
• Using all your senses – hearing, feeling, seeing, smelling – to receive messages from nature
• Finding your unique way of connecting rather than following someone else's prescribed method
• Slowing down enough to notice and engage with the natural world, even during brief moments outdoors
Connect with Deb Matlock at wild-rhythms.com or join her Facebook group "Sacred Connection Earth, Animals and Spirit" to learn more about nurturing your relationship with the natural world.
For more Divas That Care Network Episodes visit www.divasthatcare.com
It's Divas that Care Radio Stories, strategies and ideas to inspire positive change. Welcome to Divas that Care, a network of women committed to making our world a better place for everyone. This is a global movement for women, by women engaged in a collaborative effort to create a better world for future generations. To find out more about the movement, visit DivasThatCarecom after the show. Right now, though, stay tuned for another jolt of inspiration.
Speaker 2:Hello to all and happy April to all. I want to welcome you to Divas that Care Network. I am Joyce Benning and I will be your host for this invigorating, robust lifestyle show. And I will be your host for this invigorating, robust lifestyle show. I'd like to thank each one of our listeners that have tuned in live and the ones that will be listening to the podcast. I am just so very grateful for each one of you, and you are all in for a very special, special day today, because I am just overly excited to have with me my returning diva, deb Matlock, and her and I are going to chat about sacred nature connections. We have been talking about this topic for a couple months, and it is just there's so much to cover in it that we just decided in April we're going to keep going on it, especially with it being springtime here in the States. So, deb, could you please introduce yourself to our listeners today?
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely. Happy April everybody. As Joyce said, my name is Deb Matlock and I'm coming to you today from Colorado, and I have a small business called Wild Rhythms, where the focus is on nurturing the sacred and deep connection between humans and the earth and all the animals living on this earth, and I offer programs, retreats and trainings for people, professional practitioner trainings for people who would like to include this kind of work in their own offerings for their clients, and I'm just really looking forward to our conversation today, and I really love these monthly conversations. I think we always go to so many inspiring places that I always leave with a lightness in my own heart from these calls as well.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for that, Deb, and so do I. I mean, I'm always excited and it just puts a spring in me when I hear what we're going to talk about. And after our chats, we just open up so many different areas for our listeners to view into and I just love it. I love sharing with others like this. This is just beautiful. While you were talking about, I'm going to quickly ask you if some of our listeners were hearing and saying well, I would like to connect with Deb. I like some of the topics that she was introducing, that she has.
Speaker 3:What is a good way for our listeners to get a hold of you and connect with you so they can get involved in some of your workshops and what you offer them? Oh yeah, thank you so much for asking. My website is wild-rhythmscom. People can also find I have a Facebook group called Sacred Connection Earth, animals and Spirit, so if people are Facebook fans, we can connect that way as well, and I would love to connect with anybody who wants to chat about any of this stuff.
Speaker 2:Okay, perfect, perfect, and we will include your links below on this podcast. But oh, that sounds wonderful. Well, as we continue on sacred nature connections, there's something I would kind of like for us to explore today about the communication and dialogue with the more-than-human world. How do you approach that when you start to share with some of your clients about this, about communicating with more-than-the-human world?
Speaker 3:I think one of the first things to really look at here is what do we mean by the more than human world? And it's one of those phrases that I think the first person to coin that phrase was an author, david Abrams, in a book called Spell of the Sensuous, many years ago, and it's a way to describe, you know, that there's humans and then there's a whole lot of other beings in our community, and yet if we say humans and non-humans, then we're kind of centering humans as the most important, or humans and other than humans sort of says humans are the norm, but the humans and the more than human. It's just like there's so much life. We are a piece of it, but it's so much more than us. We're an important part as humans and life the four-letter word of life is so much bigger than just humans, and so I love the way to say it as the more than human world, and by that I'm personally saying birds and animals and rivers and trees and landscapes and the sky, and animals and rivers and trees and landscapes and the sky, and you know what, if every other expression of life has the ability to communicate in some way?
Speaker 3:You know, that's a question that I personally like to hold in my heart, because I think that that question can pull us along on some really amazing journeys in our daily lives. But the first thing I say to people is to think about what does the more than human world mean to you? Because for some people it might really focus only on animals or only on plants, and for other people it might be bodies of water, for some people it might be all of that, but it's really a cool place for us to say what does it mean to each of us, and that's a really good starting place when we're talking about communication and dialogue.
Speaker 2:Oh, I so agree with you. And when I think of more than human world, I just love all the examples you gave, because that's what I think of. I think of everything. I mean the sky, with the beautiful clouds in it, and even the air outside, because sometimes when there's different weather changes comes in the weather, the air will feel a damper or a dryness to it, and the trees, how they change seasons, and the grasses, and I mean it's just to me, it's just everything out there in the whole world is more than human and we can talk about that in the world and I just love how you said that it includes so much and we're all to me, we all form a web where we all connect together and if we just open our hearts to listen to what nature and the outside world is trying to tell us like that, oh, I just think it's such a beautiful experience.
Speaker 3:Yes, I agree, and I think it allows us to live our lives from an orientation of being part of better than and I think that that's a really important orientation is to realize that we're part of this magical dance on this amazing planet. You know, and all the mystery, you know, we're not the center stage, we're not the solo singer on the opera, you know, because we wouldn't be able to sing at all if it wasn't for all the other life. I mean, it just makes me feel very humble and I think it's a good reminder. I know I personally, as a human, I appreciate that reminder that you know, I am just a piece of this amazing dance.
Speaker 3:You know, I'm not center stage and I don't want to be. You know, I want to be, on the stage all together as a chorus, you know.
Speaker 2:Right, right, we all bring. It's kind of like. I love that we're part of the magical dance and we all bring our unique gift to it, whether it be a human, whether it be an animal, whether it be the trees. Whatever we bring, we can all dance together in a magical dance, as you said, and we each have a unique gift to offer that the other one can cherish and benefit from too. And when we combine them all, oh, my goodness, what a beautiful world it is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, and I feel like it also can take some of the pressure off of being a human. You know, if we think about the more than human world and the communication and dialogue and connection and all those things can happen outside of our own species as well. Does it allow us to take a breath with each other and does it allow us to see our partners as one beautiful part of our life, but not the person that's supposed to be there for everything you know that can take all the you know, because maybe we can go for a walk outdoors and maybe some of the emotions we're dealing with we can share with the land around us.
Speaker 3:You know, I think it just really it just opens up our community, our idea of community and I know we've spoken about that in previous episodes but that idea of community being humans and all the other beings, but that idea of community being humans and all the other beings, and I think this idea of communicating with the more than human world is a key part of that.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, oh, I feel the same way because it's just. I mean, just like this morning when I was outside, the birds were just singing, so beautiful, and it's just realizing that they are all part of this magical dance in this world and what they bring, it's just beautiful music. I mean cardinals I call them's an angel from heaven. Singing is how I feel and it's just enjoying that and letting go and realizing what an important part they are playing in your life and how much they are bringing to you. And like the other morning we woke up and had snow on the ground here and I threw out some feed for them and I'm like what a little thing we can each do and in return, then they are singing their beautiful music and it's just co-creating. That dance together is how I feel, is how I look at it with the more than human world out there.
Speaker 3:Oh, I love that. Yeah, co-creating the dance together. Yes, that just gave me chills when you said that. And I think you know, the more that we think of it that way, the more we can actually open ourselves up to the possibilities that we are in a constant dialogue with all of life around us. You know, I think so often, with animal communication and nature communication, people talk about, you know, having a telepathic session with your dog, which is perfectly valid and it's one way to do it. You know, having a telepathic animal communicator.
Speaker 3:You know, and I think that that is one piece of the bigger story and it's an important piece.
Speaker 3:But I think the bigger story is that there are so many ways we can engage in this communication and that we are actually doing it all the time, whether we're aware of it or not. And so what can be really fun is when we open ourselves up to it and we sort of say, okay, I'm going to just be more aware of it and play around with it a little bit, you know, and sort of see where it goes with. You know where it takes us and where our natural abilities take us, because everybody has abilities to communicate and to be in this deep dialogue and this deep connection with the more than human world. I'm convinced of it. You know, I've worked with people for 25 years and mentored people in various forms of this and I honestly am convinced that it's as natural for us as breathing. You know, what's weird is that it's a recent part of human history where we've kind of started to embody the story that this is crazy. Woo, woo. You know you can't talk to the tree, you can't talk.
Speaker 3:But if you look at human history, across cultures and across time, it was this dialogue, this collaborative dance, as you said. That is, I think you know, at the root of of of our species. You know it. It's not like it's a new thing, it's really not. What's new is us saying that you can't do it or that it's only what the weird people do.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 2:I think the world or humans have thought. Some people have just thought, oh, that can't be, it just can't be that way. Like you said, they're weird people if they communicate with animals and talk to their animals or talk to the tree or the plants or the birds and it's like no. Like you said, when you go back in history and look at how things were years and years ago, they did that, they communicated, they all lived together more and now we're all. Like you said, it's kind of people think, oh, I'm weird because I can talk to my dog, I can communicate with him, I can hear what he's trying to tell me or feel what he's trying to say, and it's just I.
Speaker 2:I agree with you too. I have heard that so much that each one of us has it inside of us to be able to do that. It's just listening and being in tune with your own intuition and opening up to do it, letting your heart listen to what your heart is saying. Let the ego and the mind sometimes go away and follow your heart and you'll be amazed how you can communicate with the more than human world is how I often look at it.
Speaker 3:I would agree, and I think the beautiful thing is that there are passages in the Bible that talk about gaining wisdom from the more than human world. There are passages in all the religions and all the cultures, and I think what we can ask ourselves is okay. So, you know, who am I as an individual? What stories have I been told? You know what belief systems are really important to me? And then how do I, from those places, open myself and say okay? And then how do I, from those places, open myself and say okay, you know, because I had one client who was, you know, in a very multi-generational, deeply fundamentalist Christian family, and she was the one who actually pulled these Bible verses out and sent them to me. I thought you know, but she was trying to find within her own story and her own culture a way to
Speaker 3:honor the experiences that she was feeling, she was having, and she was just beside herself, excited, when she thought, oh my gosh, well, of course, why would? Why would this be against anything? It's it's all about being compassionate and beautiful and empathetic and all the things that you know go with when you have a communicative relationship. And so, yeah, that openness, you know. So, first, understanding what we each mean by the more than human world, and then the next piece is just letting ourselves be open to the idea that that communication can take many forms and look many ways, and it doesn't just have one way of expressing itself, and I think that's a really important point. I want to make sure we hit on really hard today, because I've met a lot of people over the years who literally think that communicating with other species is A something that only like specially gifted people can do, and B it has to look and feel a certain way.
Speaker 3:You know, maybe they have had a session with their dog and a certain communicator and then they've got in their mind that that one way that that communicator did it is the only way.
Speaker 3:And the truth of the matter is I want to just scream no, no, no, no, no. Because you know, just like any authentic relationship, you know our way of doing it and our way of communicating is unique. You know, like the way that we interact with the humans in our lives, you know we don't it's not the same as maybe somebody else does, or even with each person.
Speaker 3:You know we have different ways of interacting you know, we learn this neighbor I need to talk to this way, or this person I need to give her a, I need to call her, give her a text before I call her, or you know, we just learn the little nuances of communication, and so being open to that learning process for ourselves, I think is almost more important than anything else.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, oh, I totally agree with you, because I've heard that too. Each one communicates with it in a totally different way, and I mean it's kind of like ten people can walk outside at the same time and each one is probably going to notice something different than the other. And that's great, because that's what's inside of you and that's what you're seeing first. And so it's just a small example of how we all communicate in a different way, and I've heard that said so many times.
Speaker 2:Even with humans, people can read something and each one will interpret it just a little different way than the other, and it doesn't mean that they're all wrong or only one's right. It's just a little bit of a different interpretation of it. And so I think it's the same with animal communication, or communicating with more than human in the world. You each have your own unique way of doing it, and the animals to me, they communicate back differently to different people. I mean my husband and I the animals communicate totally different to him than they do to me. It's just amazing how different, and when you really start to open yourself up, you can really start to notice what a unique way they each have too of communicating with different people.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, I think that's a really good point how the communication comes back. You know, because, yeah, sometimes you know somebody, especially if it's an animal that we live with, you know, like a dog or a cat or a horse or an animal that is domesticated and part of our family. You know we're going to have a very different level of communication than perhaps a wild coyote that's running through our yard. But it doesn't mean that there's not still communication there, and that's where.
Speaker 3:I also think it's like we can get stuck is thinking that it's always going to feel the same, even if we figure out okay, the way that I like to do it are this, this and this. The reality is, what we really want to do, I think, is be open to all the ways that not only can we communicate, but that we can have the communication come back to us. You know, and there are like a few different ways if we look at communication that I think you know we can chat about those here and I think probably the listeners are all going to go oh well, I do that.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I've had that experience, you know, but I didn't think of myself as communicating with the more than human world when that happened, and so I think it's a little bit of that paradigm shift, of, just like you said, we're talking about relationships here and those are not static and they're not standardized.
Speaker 3:You know I mean different squirrels, same species, but different squirrels in my backyard, where I kind of you know I'm out there a lot and they're familiar with me and you know we see each other they behave differently. They behave differently. Different squirrels behave differently with my dogs, you know.
Speaker 3:One of them will taunt the dogs from the fence and the other one will stay up in the tree. And you know they're different. It's all just because we're all individuals, I think, which is really really cool. Yes, but yeah, and I think if people are curious about this, you know we can ask ourselves so in what way do I hear the voices, if I'm able to hear? You know the voices of the more than human world, and you mentioned earlier the red bird. You know the cardinal songs. You know we can hear songs. We can hear wind in the leaves of a tree. We can hear the rustling of water. You know we can hear snakes slithering through dried-up leaves. You know we can hear chatter. We can hear stressed-out chatter. You know, like it's really not hard. I don't think you have to be a wildlife specialist to walk by a tree where there's a bird nest, like maybe robins and you can tell that there is a predatory bird like a jay or maybe a little hawk also in that tree.
Speaker 3:You know, because they're shrieking and there's all this activity and there's this chaos and it feels like stress. You know, you can hear it, you can feel it.
Speaker 3:You look up and go oh my goodness, look, there's that big blue jay is right there looking at that robin's nest. No wonder they're freaking out. We're not any different, you know. If we had little babies laying in a cradle and somebody came along to try to take our babies, we would freak out, you know. So I think we can give ourselves a lot of credit for just being like, so similar to other beings, you know. So one question is what do we hear? What sounds do we hear in the landscape, and what stories do those sounds tell us?
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, definitely, and even our feelings. I mean, how do you feel when you're outside in nature, or even like being outside during the day in the sunlight? What kind of feeling do you have? Grasp hold of those feelings and realize what they're like compared to being outside in a beautiful moonlight? To me it's going to be different feelings.
Speaker 2:So if you say, well, I don't hear the things like you're talking about, do the feelings because I think feelings come into play huge when you're looking to a more than human world and how to communicate with it, because you can have all kinds of different feelings. Or the breeze coming across your face what a feeling that is. Or even rain, if you're outside in a warm rain and the feeling of it coming down on you. Just feel it too, as much as hear it and the smells and you can just start to use all of your senses is kind of how I look at. It, is how I experience a lot of the more than human world too, other than hearing my animals and hearing things is the feeling and the smell of it too.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. In fact, sensory awareness is one of the key points that I think is so important to this is seeing and feeling and tasting. If it's safe, I wouldn't just taste random plants that you don't know. Seeing and feeling and tasting if it's safe, I wouldn't just taste random plants that you don't know. But you know, if you taste the strawberry and it's really juicy and sweet, that tells you something about the soil, the plant, the season. You know all kinds of things. It tells you.
Speaker 3:You know if you're eating the leaves off of a dandelion and they're really bitter, it tells you the story there's a possibility that that plant already flowered, versus if they haven't yet. You know. So that all these sense, the sensory awareness, is a definite window. You know we are sensory beings and that is something that we share with a lot of other beings, and so that is a definite window for communication. And you know, with with the hearing thing, it's it's not only what we can hear in our landscape but what we might possibly hear in our minds. You know we might hear messages we might not.
Speaker 3:But being open to the possibility that we're standing there with that, with that uh, bird sitting on the fence, and we're just, you know, we're standing there with that bird sitting on the fence and we're just gardening and the bird's just watching, and there may be something that we hear.
Speaker 3:And that's not a weird, unnatural thing, it's something to go. Oh, that's curious, interesting, and I feel like it's kind of fun just to say whether I'm hearing it out of me or from what feels like maybe within me. It's all a valid piece. So, adding that to the sensory awareness of just letting ourselves slow down and focus on our own senses and move into a rhythm that isn't rushing from here to there while we're staring at our phone, while we're talking to our kid, while we're, you know, but instead saying I'm going to go outside now and let my senses guide me, even if that's walking from the car to the grocery store, you know a one-minute walk, we can put our phone away and we can say I'm going to focus on my senses here and just what stories I can sense from the landscape from the more than human world.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, oh, that is just beautiful. When you were talking about the gardening and the birds and just listening to them, that just warmed my heart, because I do that all the time. Even if I walk outside and there's just birds sitting in the trees, I'm like what are they trying to tell me right now? What do I feel that they're saying to me, even though they're not saying anything? What feel are they trying to get to me? What message do they want me to hear today?
Speaker 2:And it is just amazing how you can feel that and hear them when you just tune into it and, like you said, put your phone away and just focus on that and not all the busy to-do lists that we think we have to do. You have to put those aside for me anyway. For me anyway, I have to put all that aside and just go out and just concentrate on being outdoors and enjoying what nature has to offer you. Like you said, if it's just a moment, even for me, it revives me, it gives me that. Oh okay, I got that burst of energy and maybe that's what the birds were giving me. When I saw them just sitting in the tree, they were like she needs a little bit of energy and that's what we're going to give off to her, and there are many times I just feel that it's just an all good over feeling again. So, yeah, you can experience it in so many ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's the part. If people take one thing away from our conversation today, it's that there is not one way and there certainly is no quote-unquote right way to communicate and to engage in dialogue with the more-than-human world.
Speaker 3:It's something as natural as breathing and it's living relationships, and so it's always going to be a little different, and I think that that's the part that a lot of our hearts need to hear, because I've definitely met people who've been told well, you have to do it this way or you're not doing it. And honestly, it gets me really angry when I think about they went to some workshop somewhere that were talking about it. They were told there's only one way you can do this, and if you don't do it, you know it's ridiculous, because none of us can get inside anybody else's relationships.
Speaker 3:And so it's really up to us to just be open and to say, okay, I'm going to let myself experiment with what I see, what I hear, what I feel. You know, what does my intuition tell me? You know, what does it tell me when something tastes a certain way? What does it tell me when the landscape looks a certain way? Let me just sort of say how are all the different ways that I can, as an individual, engage in the story of life around me? And then we can start asking ourselves and how do I communicate back? What do I do to make this a two-way story?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes. And to be able, like you, make this a two-way story, yes, yes. And to be able, like you said, a two-way story, to be able to give and to receive it back too, and the beauty that comes with that, and just like you can experience it in so many ways. I mean even just driving down the road, like before we came on the podcast. You were talking about the baby calves that you're seeing out and about, that are being born now in the springtime. I mean, even just seeing them can add such a little different perspective to your life if you open yourself up to accept that. So, yeah, I'm like you there is no right way, there's no wrong way. Each one has their own unique way of experiencing the more than human world.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and if we start out with just being open, you know, the possibilities are endless.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, they are Definitely. Oh, deb, this interview has gone so quickly again. This was so much fun. I just loved every moment of it and all the beautiful, beautiful words that you shared and advice for people to connect with the more than human world. I want to thank you so much, deb, for all the information you provided today. Deb, for all the information you provided today and all the nurturing to the people to help them get started on listening and feeling, and all of it, just everything, that there is no right or wrong way, as you said. I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, it's my honor and I enjoyed it as well, and I sure appreciate our conversations.
Speaker 2:Oh well, thank you, and so do I, and I am so excited. I want to thank all of our listeners today for listening to this incredible interview with Deb Matlock, and be sure and share this podcast with all your family and friends, and Deb will be back again in one more month and it will be another exciting interview, and we will have her links posted below this podcast so that you can connect with Deb and get some more valuable information. And be sure to check out all the other hosts and their shows on DivasAtCarecom. Have a fantastic day, be kind to all and remember, go out in nature and just figure out the way that you can best communicate with the more than human world and don't feel that you've got to do it one way. All ways are the right way, whatever works for you, and be sure to be kind to all. Give your animals a hug and share your love with them. Until we connect again on robust lifestyles, stay strong and healthy.
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